Pull the edge loose at the firewall end and pivot the cover back.
There is a black plastic cover that has to be pulled off of the actual fuse box. Sorry no picture. Since my wiring diagrams stated the relay was located in the fuse box, but did not give a specific position, I looked in the owners manual for more info. No luck there. I did some reading and found that there are five internal, non serviceable relays inside the fuse block. My next test would involve locating the output circuit from the relay. The wiring diagrams stated that the fuel pump relay output wire was dark green/yellow and it was located in cavity 3 of connector C270K. I placed a jumper wire into the cavity to backprobe the circuit, no volts. Since my backprobe wire is part of a fused jumper wire, I connected battery voltage to the circuit and started the vehicle. This told me that the fuel pump, inertia switch and related wiring were all okay.
I checked fuse #34 with the key on and it had power and was good so that eliminated a faulty pcm relay and related wiring. The next step was to locate the light blue/orange wire in cavity #12 of the C270B connector. It is in the lower right hand corner of the twelve cavity connector just below the connector that I am backprobing in the picture above. When the ignition is turned on the reading was near zero volts and after a few seconds it went to battery voltage. This told me that the pcm was using a ground to energize the fuel pump relay coil. With all of this testing I knew without a doubt that the fuel pump relay that is part of the interior fuse box was faulty.
Disconnect the battery first before removing the fuse block. There is a battery feed cable that also has to be disconnected on the rear edge of the fuse box. It is located under a cover. I have pictures of that at the end of this post. There is only one bolt that holds this fuse block in place.
I unplugged all of the wiring. There are connectors on the top where testing was done and on the edge. Above and below the mounting bolt.
In the rear.
This connector has a slide mechanism. I have my finger in the pull handle for it.
The fuse block removed from the vehicle. You can see the battery terminal post on the lower left edge.
I carefully removed all fuses and relays from the fuse block and laid them out in the order removed.
I took the back cover off of the fuse block and started disassembling it.
Once I had it opened it was easy to see the damage. Slightly right of center.
The damage was even easier to see from the relay side of the board. I feel fairly confident that if this problem would have been caught soon enough, the solder joint could have been repaired or a new relay installed (if one could have been located). I have 4 good used ones now.
The old fuse block on the left and the new one on the right.
I plugged everything back in and bolted the fuse block in place.
This is the end of the battery cable that I referred to earlier.
The cover for the battery stud on the fuse block.
I put all of the covers back on, cleared the codes and test drove the vehicle. This one is done.
This repair will generally apply to Ford and Lincoln full sized trucks and suv's in the same years//body style. Check diagrams and component locators before jumping any circuits, as I did.
83 comments:
Thanks this is what was wrong with mine, ford had no clue. I was able to re solder before damage was done to relay and board.
Thank you very much for this information and instruction. This was exactly what I needed. Ford would not even talk to me about it.
Definately the problem with our Expedition but now I can't locate a replacement relay?
Please help
The fuel pump relay is sold as part of the fuse box assembly. Sometimes you can re solder the loose connection if it is just starting to fail. If it is past that point the circuit board id usually too damaged to salvage the fuse box.
Thanks Sparky for your help. Ran the jumper and it fired right up. With your info was able to diagnose and purchase new CJB with confidence.
My ford expedition 2003 has this same problem. It also has alot of miles. So my question is when you said , "Sometimes you can re solder the loose connection if it is just starting to fail." Do you mean that the loose connection that is causing my box to melt in the first place is on the backside of the box and when I get a new fuse box I will solve the problem and should not have to put more money into the wireing? To many miles on it to put alot into it!!! thanks
If the connection is just cracked it can be resoldered, if you have the time and inclination. If not replacing the fuse box assembly will eliminate the poor connection . Assuming that your testing has lead to this point. It is also a good idea to check the fuel pump amperage draw to make sure the condition does not return to the new fuse box.
Please help! I had gotten to this point prior to finding your blog my fuse box was also burnt so I bought a new one put it in and started right up except now it says check charging system, Abs light is on the check reverse sensor, auto lights don't work driver seat wont adjust heat and air don't come on I don't know if I did something wrong or what my next step should be. Thanks
It sounds like one or more connectors are disconnected or at least not fully seated.
Hi was hoping you could give some in site to what my problem may be. I have bought and changed the fuse box now the only difference between the 2 boxes is that the old box has the number 9 fuse (alternator fuse) and the new box does not have that fuse ford says that we don't need that fuse for the new box changed the box got it all back together got check charging system error I was then advised to get a new alternator and battery changed both of those still get the same error. What should my next step be should I try to find a box with the number 9 fuse?
You may want to read the repair information at the following link address. It may be relevant to your issue. You will need to copy and paste the address.
http://www.sparkys-answers.com/2009/10/2003-ford-expedition-charge-light-on.html
how do you remove the battery connector from the fuse box?
Remove the cover to expose the stud and nut that hold it on. The new fuse box comes with a new cable already attached and I would assume that it is intended to be replaced with the fuse box. I have never done so though.
Thanks for all the info.
I have exactly the same issue with mine. I am ordering the CJB so i can replace it but I have also fond that the white connector (c270f, for PCM I think) has also been damaged by the short.
I need to also order and replace that said connector, but sadly I am nunable to find it online.
Would anyone have the exact part number for it?
(I am sure it is wrtitten on the connector itself but sadly my truck is not here)
Thanks
Your best bet would be a salvage yard. After that you would need to look in a Motorcraft repair harness illustrated guide. I don't know if there is one online or not. Other than those options, it will only be available as a complete wiring harness.
I found your post and my 30 Expy is having same issue. Just cranks and does not power on. Fuel pressure is at zero, no power to inertia switch and verified voltage to the fuel pump wiring and all dont get voltage. I am pretty confident that the box needs to be replace. I am unsure about how to do the jumper wire to see if it starts up that way. Any recommendations?
Assuming that you have a 2003 Expedition, look closely at the third picture in the post and re read the paragraph above it. You can click on the picture, to enlarge it for a better view.
I am having the same problem. Burnt relay. I want to solder in some wires and replace the relay with a more robust unit, but I am having trouble finding information on the pin layout of those relays. It might help myself and others in the future to know this information. Thanks!
jeff C said...
Sparky, im having a major problem with my 03 navi. when i bought it from a dealer about a month ago the guy said the wiper fuse needed to be changed. so i did so and everything has been fine... up until about 4 days ago. i drove it for about 5 hours then five hours back. on the ride back the radie cut off for a few minuets then came back on. no problems afterthat. the next morning i got up for work and when i started the car i saw that the gauges didnt come on and the check engine light stayed on. after 15 seconds everything worked fine except the wipers. i found a blown fuse (fuse #1 10amp) which is the ACC fuse. i changed it and it blew again instantly. i turned the truck off then put the new fuse in. when i started it back up smoke came from the CJB butthe fuse did not blow. i turned the key back off. when i turned it on again the fuse didnt blow but nothing on the wiper tree worked, and the same thing happened with the gauges again. i remover the CJB and dissasembled it and found that the circuit going from the fuse #1 to the first pin was destroyed. i resouldered the circuit and reinstalled the CJB. started the truck and everything worked fine, except for the fact that i had a CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM and BAT MIL. i had the battery checked and it was infact bad so i changed it. stil had the same light. changed the alternator same problem. now it gets interesting... i took the alternator that i just took off and had it bench tested and it passed. so i know it wasnt an alternator problem to begin with. i gave up on it for the night. the next day i get up remove the CJB and remover the repair that i did on the board thinking maybe it was causing something to pull a load on the alternator since i never had this problem until i did the repair. put the CJB back in and same problem. after some tracing wires down i figured out that the VOLTAGE REGULATOR on the ALTERNATOR was not getting power from the CJB which was only allowing the alternator to put out about 5v. i removed the CJB again and re worked the soulder again to patch the break in the circuit, AGAIN! put the CJB back in and started the car up. the #1 fuse blew instantly. i cut the 12v wire going to the voltage regulator ran a 10amp inline fuse from the battery and powered it that way (which is esentialy what ford did later on in the production year to this vehicle via a fuseable link) and now the alternator is puttin out the correct voltage and i have no MIL. now the main question... the #1 ACC fuse still blows everytime i start the truck. prety much giving me the same problem i had before.when you turn the truck on windows, gauges, turn signals, hazards and radio do not work and the engine MIL stays lit. after 15 seconds the cluster comes to life the engine MIL goes off and everything works except the wipers. do you have any ideas on what could be causeing this problem or do you have an electrical schematic for this vehicle so i can see what exactly comes off of this particular circuit and try to further trouble shoot. any help would be much appreciated.
According to my information fuse #1 in the CJB sends power to the front wiper motor, rear wiper motor, instrument cluster and low tire pressure module. The wire color code is black/pink. I would suspect the short would be at the rear wiper motor wiring where it travels through the body and into the lift gate. I could be cut into sheet metal in the roof or the lift gate door. Also the wires could be rubbed together and shorting inside the harness. I would try replacing the fuse with the lift gate door in varying positions to see if it stops blowing before dis assembly.
Having same root issue p0231 - intermittent stalling. After pulling all connectors on front and side and nut - can't get board out. It still has the 3 connectors in the back and the battery line conected but i can't seem to get it out of position to pull the rest of the connectors off and the battery line cover off. How does the standoff hold in place?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
ps Jeff C - I also had the same issue as you and it turned out to be a short on the wire harness between the alternator and the battery. It was intermittent and periodically caused the battery voltage to go all over the place. If you follow the harness back from the alternator, there a two takoffs. One goes towards the bottom of the battery holder and ties into the washer fluid reservoir through other connectors. My intermittent short was in this one as it rested on the top of one of the metal a/c lines. ...of course FIRST I replaced the alternator, battery and re-programmed the pcm to no avail (as per my dealers suggestion and benefit...)
It has been a while since I have done one of these, but I think the battery cable may have to be removed from the stud on the fuse box before it will pull towards the seat enough to access the rear of the fuse box. The fuse box has to lift off of the mounting stud and slide towards the rear of the vehicle before the hinge tab at the front of the fuse box will clear the sheet metal.
I have seen the shorted wires at the a/c lines for the alternator and have done a post on it. I does not seem to be relevant to the short for the #1 fuse. At least according to the wiring diagram that I looked at.
http://www.sparkys-answers.com/2009/10/2003-ford-expedition-charge-light-on.html
I have the no crank, no start issue with my 03 Expy. With all the issues that they had, I decided just to purchase the box and get it over with. The question I have is, does the new box need reprogrammed (part #3L1Z-14A068-AA).
I was told by the parts guy that Ford would have to flash this box after install.
Plug and play. No flash required.
Sparky,
Thank you so much for your time to create blog, I was able to review and gain confidence from your blog and took matters into my own hands, after replacing fuel pump and spark-plugs I had to reseach online to figure out the problem, once again thank you so much. Mero in SoCal.
I have a 03 Ford Expedition and it shuts off while driving . I have taken it to Ford and they stated it was the fuel pump I had it replaced and as soon as I picked it up it shut off again . They claim when they have the vehicle in the shop it does not shut off. HELP .. will the above that you have listed be the issue ...
It is very likely to be the problem and is easy to test when the condition is present. If it is very intermittent someone may need to install a telltale light or lights into the system to monitor current flow.
Tnks for the help! I have had intermittent stalling for (3) years now and have tried several repairs. I went to pull mu box out last night and as soon as I put my head down by the floor mat to work I could smell an electrical smell. Pulled the box out and disassembled it and it looked just like you photos with the melted relay. Tnks again!
Where is the best place to buy the replacement box?
Unless you want a used part the only place to buy one is the dealership.
Can you tell me if the jumper wire go to the +or - of the battery? Thanks
Battery positive. Be very sure you are connected to the correct wire and use a fused jumper wire. You do not want to let the magic smoke out!!!
My fuse box is buzzing and ticking. Truck will not start and if it does it stalls. Does this sound like the peoblem above
Very possible but I would recommend doing some testing.
Sparky,
Having a very similar problem. 03 Expedition died, let it sit a few hours, started up, ran for 2 weeks. Last week, died again. Try to restart and kind of sputters then dies. An hour later only spins on the starter with no start. Checked the fuel pump relay output and when you turn the key it hits 12 volts for just a second then drops to 6. Decided to take apart the fuse box, nothing noticably wrong with the fuel relay or anything. Put the fuse block back together very carefully and reistalled. Put key in ignition, everything sounds normal, turn key to ignition and everything dies, all electrics. Checked voltage going to the fuse block, reads 6. Took aprat the box again, nothing notable, reinstalled, voltage going to fuse block back at 12, accesories work, turn to ignition and everything dies again. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Eric,
What is the color code for the wire that is changing from 12 to 6 volts?
What are you using for ground for your meter? When chasing a suspected voltage drop it is best to use the battery negative post for your meter ground.
Check to see if the same voltage drop is present at the large battery feed cable at the fuse box.
Sparky,
Thanks for the reply. I was checking the dark green/yellow line with the ground to the battery terminal. Just checked the battery feed cable to the box and it is dropping voltage. Now as soon as you turn the key to the accessories, the voltage drops to 6 and the electrics die. Take the key out and it slowly rises to 11.5. Battery voltage is 12.5. There were no codes in the computer yesterday.
Eric
Sparky,
Update on my problem. Turns out the voltage drop at the battery feed cable was self induced. Tried to clean up battery the same day I began this diagnostic and didn't get a good connection on the positive side. Cleaned up properly and now back the the original issue of the fuel pump relay output (dark green/yellow) wire drops to 6 volts when you turn the key then slowly rises to about 10 while you are cranking the starter. Does this sound like a bad relay?
Thanks
Eric
Assuming that you are on the correct dark green/yellow wire as shown in the picture, using a fused jumper wire, connect that wire to the battery lead at the bolt and nut connection. If the fuel pump comes on and the engine runs, it would seem like the relay and/or circuit board is faulty. Also have you checked the control wire from the pcm to the fuse box, light blue/oarnge?
Hello, i got a question for you, my expedition wont star it only cranks so i spray the motor and i was able to turn it back on for less than a second, i think is the fuel pump. now since i dont know how to test with a wired i took all the fuse box out and check the internal relays visually but there was no burn at all.can you please tell me how does the wired cable works because i need to test but i have no clue at all. Now im planning to replace the fuel pump my expedition has 100000 miles. Do you think is a good idea to chang the fuel pump in case that still works.
All of the testing information is in the paragraphs before and after the third picture in this article. You will need a fused jumper wire, a voltmeter and/or a test light. If you are not sure of what to do from reading the article I recommend getting the help of a friend or a professional mechanic that can. I do not recommend changing the fuel pump without some sort of testing.
Sparky,
Thanks for all the great info. I have had similar issues as most that have posted here. The stalling has not occurred since 31 Oct after replacing the TPS and repairing a short between the positive battery wire and an AC metal pipe... now my 03 Expy will crank but won't start.
I have no fault codes displayed on my OBDII yet the CHECK ENGINE light is on. In addition, I have zero vdc on fuse #34. Checked the fuse and have .3 ohms resistance - so it is good.
Also have 0 vdc at the green/yellow wire coming out of the connector as depicted in your thread.
Instrument cluster operates and shows 1/4 tank of gas.
Where is relay 303?
Does relay 303 feed fuse #34 or vise versa?
Hi Dean,
I am not at my shop right now so I cannot look up all of the information. However from what I remember from writing this article fuse #34 is powered by the PCM relay. The fuel pump relay is on the circuit board inside the fuse box. Is the #303 relay that you are asking about for the PCM or Fuel Pump? Did you check the signal on the light blue/orange wire?
Sparky,
I continued with my exploration of my issue and with great trepidation, I removed the fuse panel and all the plastic trays with the circuit runs to reveal the burnt relay #303 on the printed circuit board.
I showed my wife a picture of the board and she said, "so that must have been that".
Ford sure is proud of these fuse panels! This inferior design cost me $400.58! They laughed when I asked if I could buy the board with out the fuses!
The Expy is running now and no issues with charging circuits as reported by others in this blog have arisen!
Thanks for all the support and for posting all the pics!
Sparky,
The replacemnet relay for the printed circuit board can be purchased from Digikey for about $4. It is Digikey part number Z2696-ND. Their phone number is 800 344 4539.
Thanks,
Clint
Sparky,
You seem to be the most knowledgeable person on this topic, so I hope you have an idea for me.
I have an 06 Ford Expedition XLT that is experiencing very similar issues as described in the other posts.
Here is my issue:
When I turn the ignition to the on, but not crank stage, the fuel pump will prime about once out of 15 tries and is random. If the fuel pump primes, then the car runs as it should, but if it does not prime it does not run.
Here is what I have done so far:
1) Changed the Fuel Pump (No Change)
2) Changed the FPDM (No Change)
3) Bypassed Inertia Switch (No Change)
4) Removed and inspected fuse box as instructed in your blog. (No issues there, all joints look good and no burnt spots of any kind.)
Is there anything else you can point me to on this? Pulling my hair out and the dealership has no idea what the issue is. There is no codes on the ODB2.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
-Greg
Sparky,
One other thing on my 2006 Ford Expedition issue, I did as you said and jumpered the Dark Green and Yellow wire with the ignition on, but the fuel pump did not come on.
Thanks again.
-Greg
First of all your 2006 system is very different from the 2003 that I posted about. Luckily the dark green/yellow wire is in the same place with the same function. Battery power is sent out on it to the FPDM and arrives on the white wire. The color changes at the inertia switch. Once there, nothing happens until the PCM sends a pulse width modulated signal on the light blue/orange wire. The PCM monitors the FPDM operation via a signal sent back to it on the light blue/red wire. Since there are no codes there are two different diagnostic paths to consider. Either the problem lies between the FPDM and the fuel pump or there is a condition present in the PCM data that is disabling the need for fuel pressure. Basic voltage testing can be done at the FPDM and fuel pump with a good voltmeter. Data will need to be examined with a scan tool that has access to the appropriate data. Assuming the engineers put it in there to start with.
Sparky,
Thanks for the quick response! Although the 2006 is different your post is the only thing that has helped me begin troubleshooting that the dealership couldn't even do. I have already replaced a fuel pump that didn't fix anything based on the dealership diagnostic.
I do have an update after troubleshooting this more. Let me know if i am understanding things correctly as the issue is starting to look like the relay issue again from the original post of yours.
If I ground a test light and test the fuse #12 (Fuel Pump) with the key in the run position it stays on steady. This tells me that I have power to the relay. When I plug this test light in to the same slot as the Dark Green / Yellow wire, it has no light when the pump has not been able to prime. If I leave that hooked up and turn the ignition back and forth, I see the light blink every time for a second. When it finally hits a point where the fuel pump kicks on and primes, the light stays on that time instead of blinking and going out.
If I jumper the Dark Green / Yellow to a hot fuse that has power on ignition, the car starts and the fuel pump primes every time!!! Earlier testing I was trying to use the jumper to hear the pump come on after I had the key in the on position but did not try leaving the jumper in and re-trying the ignition.
Does this confirm the issue is with the relay? Or is more testing in order before I order a relay and solder it in?
Thanks again!!!
-Greg
It sounds exactly like a relay issue. I do not know if I really should mention this or not. The initial problem is not with the relay. It is a solder joint problem for the relay. If caught early enough, all that really needs to be done is to just resolder the connection. If you look closely at the solder joints for the relay you should see a black ring in the solder joint around the relay terminal. Very early in the failure it will be a slightly darker shade of silver/gray. As the problem worsens the ring will darken and get wider. The ring or crack initially will be less than half the diameter of a human hair. Sadly that is enough to produce a pedestrian situation.
Sparky,
First off, what an amazing thing happened when I cam across your blog!
Secondly, I have replaced the relay and re-soldered the connections (even if the relay was not bad I choose to do it. $4.00 part from digikey) My 2006 Ford Expedition is back up and running correctly without the fuel pump issue!!!! Tested the relay and with the test light, it works every time now when I turn the ignition over!
Thank you again so very much. I will be donating to your site today! You are the best!!!!!
Also, you may want to post this as a 2006 issue as well. The testing and troubleshooting along with the re-solder of the relay was all exact to the 2003!
Thanks again!
-Greg
Thanks Sparky for the help. I went through hell and a lot of money with some not so honest repair facilities before getting to the point of replacing the fuse box on my 2005 Expedition. I followed your post and made the repair last night with success.
Thanks again!
I am happy that you fixed your vehicle. I know it can be a touchy subject, but I would prefer to think of the shop that you dealt with as untrained or ignorant rather than crooks. Much more likely.
I reported a while back that I found a fried relay and damaged leads on my fuse / relay panel when troubleshooting the no start issue and replaced the entire panel. That and the Tech Service Bulletin (TSB 04-14-9 ) fixed several issues that I was having (stalls at HWY speed, Door Ajar/lights/chime, no start indi). That was back in OCT and now in JAN, the Expedition is stalling at freeway speeds once again!
This time it's a bit different as the battery and CE indicators are coming on when the truck stalls. DTC code P 0320 is displayed.
How likely is this truly Crankshaft position (CKP) sensor issue and not another goose chase???
Thanks for all the help in the past. Please let us know if you think that the stall indications and the P0320 code really is related to the CKP sensor. Thanks!
There are several things that can cause your issue. Crank sensor, crank sensor connector, faulty coil causing PCM feedback interference, PCM and water in any of the related connectors. By any chance do you have access to a scan tool or code reader that is capable of reading mode 6 data?
Sparky!
No code 6 scanner available and automotive stores like O'Reilly, etc. can't loan a reader either out here in the land of the fruits and nuts (California).
So no...
But I did check the COP and noticed the condensation on top of the #6, 7, & 8 plugs. I vacuumed them out and put additional dielectric grease on the plug connectors. Condensation seems to build on the fuel line and drip down into the plug wells...
It's been warm and dry here so I don't know if additional moisture from condensation is getting in other areas other that via condensation!
I also checked the CKP sensor connector contact and put the dielectric grease there as well (Expy starts so I did not run the voltage test on the sensor). The CKP is about $22 so that might be the next in line for replacement items.
Your thoughts?
Yes, a crank sensor is relatively cheap and worth trying. Be sure to use a major name brand. Motorcraft preferably. My research showed common problems with coil assemblies for cylinders 4 & 8 as possible causes for your symptoms.
Sparky,
I replaced the CKP sensor and now the stalls are occurring more frequently (3x in about 5 miles)....
Here is some additional info that I did get from my OBDII:
MIL - Off
DTC - P0320
RPM - 1623
Load value - 65%
Air Flow Rate - 32.77 Gr/sec
Intake air temp - 73
Ignition timing Adv - 30.5
Short Term Fuel Trim 1 - 1.5%
Long Term Fuel Trim 1 - 2.3%
Short Term Fuel Trim 2 - 1.5%
Long Term Fuel Trim 2 - 0.7%
Short Term Fuel Trim 3 - -8%
Long Term Fuel Trim 3 80.4%
Long Term Fuel Trim 4 - 65.6%
Short Term Fuel Trim 4 - -3.4%
Vehicle Speed - 19MPH
Fuel System 1 - CLSD
O2S111 - 0.040V
O2S1211 - .040V
O2Sxx11 - .040V
Short Term Fuel Trim (Bx-Sy) 11 - 1.5%
O2S1112 - 0.100V
O2S1212 - 0.100V
O2Sxx12 - 0.100V
Short Term Fuel Trim (Bx-Sy) 12 - 99.2%
O2S1121 0.055V
O2Sxx21 0.055V
Short Term Fuel Trim (Bx-Sy) 21 - 1.5%
O2S1122 - 0.595V
O2S1222 - 0.595V
O2Sxx22 0.595V
Short Term Fuel Trim (Bx-Sy) 22 99.2%
Does that shed more light on anything that would assist in identifying the faulty component?
Dean
Assuming that replacing the crank sensor has worsened the condition, I would suspect a faulty crank sensor harness connector. Based on the limited data that you shared, my initial impression is lean fuel. Low O2 sensor readings are indicative of a lean condition. Interpreting the O2 data is highly dependent on the TPS position and whether an deceleration or acceleration was the precondition of the TPS data. There are many other things that can come into play such a scan tool reporting speed. Just for for the sake of argument I would monitor fuel pump voltage and if you have the tooling, actual fuel pressure.
2003 Ford Expedition, the fuel light is always on and my fuel gauge does not work.(all way flat down on empty). The problem occurred when a local mechanic did a fuel injection cleaning. Right after the procedure he used to clean my fuel injectors the fuel gauge and fuel light remained on and currently is still on well after 3,000 miles or more. the truck works fine except my for my fuel gauge. I am expecting once the fuel gauge begins to function, that will solve the fuel light to turn off. any ideas? is there a fuse for the fuel gauge? do you believe it's damage to the fuel pump/float?
I would ask the mechanic if something may have been disconnected during the injector cleaning that may not have gotten fully reconnected. Everyone has their own methods of disabling the fuel pump during an injector cleaning operation. Although there are a lot of variables, it would be fairly unlikely that the two are related.
Hey Sparky, I have an 05 expedition and I'm pretty sure my fuel pump relay is shorting out as shown in your great write up. I hook up a hot wire to the dark green and yellow wire and tried to start it up. It started without hesitation.
Here is my question. Will it damage the PCM if I wire in a regular fuel pump relay. Ford wants $249 for the whole fuse block. I think that is a little excessive. Anyway, what do you think?
If you can find an external type that has the same resistance values and other possible internal electronics, find a wiring diagram and connector identifier and take the time to actually do the modification then yes. But when you consider all of that $250 does not seem that bad. It definitely is not cost effective for me to do that for a customer. I do also want to stress the need for amperage draw testing of the fuel pump as these vehicles age. The last thing you want to do is install a new fuse box and have a faulty fuel pump take it out again.
Thanks for this blog. My fuel system issue is exactly as detailed here. I was able to find a company to order the relay. I will keep you posted. After I disassembled, at first I thought I had done it in vain because the damage was hard to see. After I looked closer at the pins, I could see what could be a solder joint gone cold. And sure enough, when I looked at the relay side, the relay's casing was slightly melted. I will keep you posted whether I end up buying another panel, or successfully repair this one. The company to get the relay was one mentioned earlier in this thread (Digikey).
Thanks to all for all the great info. My 03 Expd. has exact same problem, cranks won't start, but after all the electrical testing my grn/yllw wire has 6.56 volts when powered. All the others check out fine. I think I have a bad fuel pump, checking it in a few minutes. What does the 6 volts mean? Is the fuse block (relay) "going" bad?
Sorry sparky, I just noticed the don't ask questions.
There should be 12 volts on the dark green/yellow wire. The 6.52 volt reading would indicate a poor connection in the fuse/relay box. Of course make sure that you are on the correct wire. I do not encourage the asking of questions (I am only one man and have a shop to run) but as you can see there are a lot asked and answered.
Sparky, thanks for all the great info on the 03 Exp. fuel pump/etc. issues. I did have to replace the fuel pump and it started right up and ran, but now it runs almost like a cylinder is missing. I went ahead and took the fuse block apart and it looks like the relay connections are good but after the new fuel pump there wasn't any voltage on the light blue/orange wire. 12 volts on the Grn/Yllow. Anyway to check the relay (303) with the fuse block apart? I don't know what to look for now for the rough running condition. It was running perfectly prior to the new pump.
Hi Sparky, I'm having the same problem with my 05 Lincoln Navigator. I ordered a used fuse junction box but was told if i do it myself i would have to have the dealership reprogram the vehicle. Is this true. Can I simply unplu the battery and unplug damaged fusebox and plug in new box if it has the same vin# codes on back?
The Expedition fuse box in this article is plug and play with no programming needed. I cannot say that your Navigator is using the same part. Because of later year and higher trim level it may have a electronic module built into it that requires programming.
Hi RD Summ,
I doubt that the fuse box is contributing to a poor run // misfire condition. I would suggest having codes and data inspected to determine the cause of the problem. In particular look at Mode 6, CID 53.
Greetings Sparky and forum friends: A couple of months ago my vehicle experienced the condition list here. I removed the fuse box panel. Took it apart and found it was the relay solder joint and the relay was slightly melted, but not to the point it was unusable. Since it was not in my budget to replace the box at that time and could not wait for a new relay, I had to put the box back together - whew what a task, and prayer was utilized with putting it back together because I didn't know the relay contacts held some of the components together.
Anyway, I got it reassembled and I was just going to jumper it. However, I remember after I found the "cold" solder joint, I fiddled with it a little bit and did not bother to re-solder it at that time. To my surprise, I must have moved it enough to cause the solder joint to make contact with the circuit board runs. I started the truck and drove it for the past couple of months with no problem. The high current condition, I believe is caused by running the vehicle with low fuel. As long as I kept a quarter tank or more, I did not have a problem. The past few days I ran the truck on low fuel, where the alarm came on. This morning when I went out to start it, the joint had most plausibly heated up enough to expand to the extent that once it cooled, it was no longer in contact with the circuit board runs. So, if you're having this issue, I would presume one possible cause of the high current condition is caused by low fuel, thereby, causing the pump to work harder, therefore demanding more current. The reason I think the pump works harder, depending on how the vehicle is driven, there may be times when the pump is "sucking a little air". I can't say for sure, but it is a great suspicion. If someone who knows how it could cause the pump to draw more current, please confirm. Thanks. This forum, as I anonymously said before, is priceless. Just think of all the people who have benefitted. Thanks again.
If your gas tank is very low in fuel(only a couple of gallons left in the tank) you do run the risk of sucking some air. Fuel gauge systems are designed to compensate for this by reading empty while there is still adequate fuel in the tank to prevent this. If there is a noticeable engine performance problem when the fuel reading is at or below 1/4 of a tank, it would suggest that there is a plumbing problem (leaking hose) inside the gas tank. It is best to always keep your gas tank above half a tank. A quarter of a tank minimum. The reason is that the fuel is also a coolant for the fuel pump. A hotter pump draws more current and causes some of the problems we have been discussing. If your vehicle has a replaceable external fuel filter it should be changed at 20,000 to 30,000 mile intervals. Restricted fuel filters cause fuel pumps to work harder and draw more current.
Back to the original post...I just need to find out where I can buy the CJB. We took off the old one and yes the board is burnt up. and yes ford does need to recall these, so many people are having troubles. We need to replace it but where do I get it? Sorry I've been all over the net looking and cant find anything. Is this an item from the dealer or am I using the wrong name for it. Any help would be appreciated. I may not be the only one who needs this info. Thanks again.
It is a dealer part and not available new except from a Ford dealership or online Ford distribution site. You will need your VIN and production date since there are two different versions in the same year model.
This helped me out a lot! this is what happened to my 03 expedition to thanks for all the info saved me a lot of money doing this my self instead of having to take it into a shop for someone else to charge me a arm and a leg to fix it . The fuse block cost me 394.00 threw ford!
Had the same problem for over a year. Would be driving along normally, come to a stop lite, engine would die. It would start back up after about 5 min. Then it wouldn't happen again for 3-5 months. Eventually it got progressively worse and happened more often. I didn't think it was the fuel pump because it wouldn't have been so sporadic. Grateful to find this blog. It got to where if it wouldn't restart I could press on center of fuse panel and it would start. I ordered a new panel and took the old old one apart. The inside relay looked just like sparkys picture. The corner was melted. This saved me a lot of hair pulling. Thank you!!
I dont know which set of wires is cavity 3 Connector C270K. I am not get n any power to fuel pump that I changed out yesterday. Was going to run a hot with fuse from battery to c if it will work. Did u mention what size wire to use to run for the hot. Immediate respond cud b appreciated. Happy Fathers Day also..
If you will click or double click on the third picture to enlarge it, you should be able to clearly see the dark green/yellow wire that my jumper wire is back probing.
Wasn't pay n attention i see that orange probing wire. Any particular size wire to run for my hot from battery to that fuel pump wire.
A good rule of thumb is the same size wire that you are jumping to. If I remember correctly the dark green/yellow wire was 16 or 14 gauge. My jumper wire is twelve gauge with an inline fuse that needs to be rated the same as the fuel pump fuse.
Just wanted to thank you for your knowledge. I ended up taking out my fusebox an solder the back of that 303 relay. Install the fusebox. And the expo cranked an drove it all with no problems. Thank you once again, I pray that God will continue bless the works of yur hands an to increase your knowledget. Stay blessed.
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